Atheists, how do you view war and religion?

Question

Prior to the 1960s, war was considered to be the product of industrialized nations and civilizations. It was thought that civilizations fighting for territory and religion were the only wars ever fought. The first wars were for territory, and when more religions sprouted up, there were wars over religions. Anthropologists thought that tribes and villages were peaceful, and were not affiliated with a warfare culture. All tribes they encountered were relatively peaceful, and were even compliant to researchers. 

They were wrong.

Small tribes had to be gathering resources, hunting and gathering were the primary focus. But, once a tribe has gotten big, say a couple villages, resources plentiful, and population stable, the culture shifts. All of the tribes researched prior to the 60s had some sort of intervention with civilized society. In fact, there was evidence that tribes were violent, like the Sioux, Cherokee, and Utes. But those examples weren't ever used to prove that even tribes had warring states. In fact, they were blatantly disregarded as proof. (That pisses me off, since I myself am 1/4 Native American, Pueblo Indian, so they didn't disregard my ancestry, but still offended.) there was no specific reason why this evidence wasn't classified as proof, but I think it was civil unrest toward Native Americans. 

The tribe studied which brought this subject up for debate was the Yanomamö tribe. Napoleon Chagnon studied them, totally surprised by their culture. They pretty much adopted civilized culture when the closest form of it was on the opposite side of the globe. South America was full of tribes that faced close to no civilized intervention, but still had wars, culture of honor, similar religions, even the same weapons. The bows and arrows in the Americas were way beyond their time, and more efficient than the firearms made until the late 1800s. Clubs they made were similar to maces, and blades they made were very sharp and help edges after impact, like primitive swords.

The Yanomamö wars were primarily over women, the Men were concerned with honor, and had a sort of culture based off of reputation and nobility. This organization was so similar to feudal Europe, it inspire Napoleon Chagnon to name the book he wrote about the Yanomamö, "Noble Savages". 

Wars are fought for many reasons, but the most profound reason they are fought is for religion. The Crusades and the constant wars between Spain, France, and England were over Christianity. Wars over Jihad are being fought today in the Middle East. Nearly every religion has been fought over, even Buddhism. Hell, if you consider Atheism a religion, it also has a substantial kill count, among the highest, but Atheists have always been stubborn in claiming Atheism is not a religion, but that is for another time. My point is, even atheism isn't immune to wars fueled by belief.

But war has been proven to be a catalyst in innovation. Anthropologists still debate whether which was made first, weapons or tools? Tools would make sense, but weapons make more sense. The fact is, weapons made for killing game and rival tribes were tweaked to become tools, or something vice versa. But that fact alone should prove that innovation is fueled by war. 

The most profound and incredible example of this was Nazi Germany. Ever since Adolf Hitler took control of Germany, he built his military up, while spending a lot of money and time researching to make his weapons better. The research done made some of the first ballistic missiles, the most efficient bombs, and the first stealth technology. The easiest way to prove how ahead the nazis were was occasionally the Nazis would bomb warships, and the bombs would be so aerodynamic and so fast that they would often tear through warships and sink into the sea before exploding. The bombs were too aerodynamic and fast for the warships to handle. They also made some of the most dangerous tanks in history, and equally dismal planes. Some even argue that Nazi Germany was only defeated because of the enemies' sheer numbers, Britain, France, the United States, and of course Soviet Russia. 

If the world was warless, there would be a strangulation on innovation. Whether it be war on religion or war over territory, war is the mother of innovation, while necessity is the father.

Abomination of Desolation · Accepted Answer

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,

Crowley once said "The price of existence is eternal warfare," and I feel this is correct. You mention human advancement in war, but also realize that the adaptation and evolution of life is a perpetual arms race. The populations who get too comfortable invariably suffer an extinction when an event occurs that they cannot respond to. But populations that are capable of building a new way of life in exposure to a pressure thrive on again.

But people are often obsessed with the comfort of peace. and while I get war is violent, and bloody, and dirty, to deny the advances it always seems to herald is just silly. Now, I am going to read your answers and get a good sigh or two out of the people telling you how horrible war is because you are wrong, despite never having studied history.

Edit:
" a period of time when the first world was pretty much at full peace. "

That's pretty funny. We've been in constant wars. Especially the United States. Of course, at some point we stopped calling them wars; but these advances still seem to come out of military research.

"Now, with our current global population, it is a lethal threat"

Humanity is not exempt from nature. It was always a lethal threat, but to suggest that that is a bad thing is pretty selfish. Existence is a very high risk game.

Edit2:

I am actually amused by the people claiming your "Rant," to be erroneous. They have provided no justification for it beyond them not liking war. Advances in medicine are always caused by a need, and war has always provided the greatest need, as disease and injury ruin an army. To best an opponent require new toys, which has moved the field of engineering on. It's absurd to think that not having a need would in any way cause advancement.

Love is the law, love under Will.

dudeman612 · Answer

War is not the mother of innovation. Sure, some technologies have their roots from wartime innovations, but to say that war is the catalyst for innovation is just asinine.

And the most profound reason wars are fought is NOT for religion. Religion is often used as an excuse to whip the people up into a fury and ignite their passions, but is usually not the real reason for war. Resources, land, and food are the most common reasons for war.

But to answer your initial question before your erroneous rant; war is just part of human nature. I'd rather we avoid it at all possible costs, but sometimes it is a necessity.

Religion, I think, is a big steaming pile of unnecessary BS. However, looking at it from an anthropological viewpoint, it too is a part of human nature. It is rooted in our emotions, our fears, our desires, our cultures and societies, traditions, our limited knowledge of the world (but our understanding is growing by leaps and bounds), and so on.

? · Answer

Lack of education or just a silly false claim?

Biblical wars.

Crusades.

The dark ages.

WWII - Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. - Adolf Hitler

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.
- Adolf Hitler

George W Bush started FIVE wars in less than eight years stating each time that it was his "God Given Duty” and in 2001 even called it a Crusade!

Not his duty to the electors!

Not his duty to America!

Just his duty to keep slaughtering heathens for his god!

Christianity has been at the forefront of causes of wars!

They are not alone either!

The violence goes right back to a dispute over who had spiritual authority over the Muslim community after the death of the prophet Muhammad in what is called the “fitna” which translates as temptation or trial and caused all the discord within Muslim community.

Shi’ite Muslims believe that authority was vested in his family; the Sunnis look to the sayings and actions of Muhammad as well as the Koran.

The extreme sectarian violence has been brought about by Al-Qaeda Which while being exclusively Sunni deliberately set Shi’ites and Sunnis to kill each other in Iraq. Sadly more Muslims die by Muslim hands each month than were killed by the invading forces in the war!

Hamas also kills far more Muslims than the Israelis ever have!

An average of over thirty five Muslims a week were being  killed by Muslims but in the last few years it has frequently been over a hundred a week!

Whether it is a Danish Cartoon, book of fiction , a snippet of film  or some other excuse, Muslims hit the streets around the world rioting, looting, burning and uttering death threats!

Nearly all the Muslim countries are seeing Muslims attack Muslims destroying homes, businesses, infrastructure and targeting women and children particularly showing the extremists must surely be trying to turn Muslims into primitives living in caves and mud huts so they can be controlled more easily!

The murders in London and Paris clearly demonstrate that the extremists are winning in turning Muslims into primitive savages!

All that is required for evil to triumph over good is for good men to do nothing Evil can triumph only if good men do nothing – Edmund Burke

So if you want religions of peace and be able to live in peace what are you going to do about it?!

Citizen Justin · Answer

No, innovation does carry on without war, only without lots of people being pointlessly killed. The greatest innovation would be finding an end to war (without making the species extinct in the process).

Making arguments for war as a necessary part of the human condition is dangerous, and I'd advise anyone not to go there.

ANDRE L · Answer

The stupidity of this off topic rant can be seen in the amazing advances in many areas of technology of the last, say, 30 years, a period of time when the first world was pretty much at full peace. 

So, since you just failed Recent History 101, go read an actual history book, such as The Better Angels Of Our Nature, by Steven Pinker, and LEARN something.

Fake Genius · Answer

the greatest inventions were made during prosperous time. without prosperity, there is little money to spare for innovation. 

you're just one of those who bought the idea from war industry. 
the greatest inventions had nothing to do with war. they are not even tools for war.

duke_of_urls · Answer

War is territorial insanity.

Extreme territorialism likely helped our evolution for hundreds of thousands of years.  Now, with our current global population, it is a lethal threat.

QueenofAsgard · Answer

Pointless.

Anonymous · Answer

War is part of human nature but we often do our best to suppress the aspects of human nature that are immoral, whereas religion often encourages 'holy' wars.

Giggity · Answer

another rant disguised as a question.

Atheists, how do you view war and religion?

10 Answers